Thursday, September 25, 2008

The Village: Day 2

Now that you've watched the first half of The Village, what are you taking from the film so far? What symbols and motifs are you noticing? What connections do you see to The Crucible or to any of the articles we've read?

This is a space to pose questions, offer thoughts, and respond to others' interpretations.


marissas said...

Now that we have watched more of The Village, I have begun to notice many symbols and motifs. To begin with the obvious symbols, I think that the woods symbolism fear of the unknown. The people in the village want to know what is in the woods, but their immense fear keeps them from entering. I also concluded that the chair that Ivy sat in after Lucius was stabbed, her father sat in when he learned his daughter was blind, and Noah sat in after he stabbed Lucius, may symbolize mourning and confusion.

Here are a few questions to get the discussion started:

Why do you think Lucius wasn’t more afraid about going into the forest?

If you were Ivy, how do you think you would have responded to Noah's actions?

amyw said...

Honestly, if I was Ivy, I would have responded the same way to Noah that she did. I probably would have been just as angry as she was, and sometimes when you're really angry, you don't think about your actions.

Also, I've noticed that fire may be a symbol/motif. This is interesting because it's red and it's widely used by the people to ward off darkness near the forest, yet red is the color that they despise (the "bad" color).

Weather seems to be a motif as well. It's usually cloudy or overcast or rainy in the village, which echoes the turmoil that's taking place (this reminds me of Macbeth, for those of you who read it last year). Also, near when we stopped watching the movie today, it started to rain when Ivy and the two boys were going into the forest. Could that be foreshadowing that their journey won't turn out well?

I have a question: Why is yellow the "good" color? What makes it the color that supposedly wards off the people they don't speak of?

Finally, I've noticed a big connection to the Crucible. Noah harmed Lucius because he (I'm infering) had feelings for Ivy as well. He didn't think about how Ivy would react when she found it was him who harmed Lucius. Similarly in the Crucible, Abigail tried to get Elizabeth accused of witchcraft, which would mean almost certain death, because she had feelings for John and was jealous of Elizabeth. But she didn't think about how John would react when he found out that it was her who tried to incriminate Elizabeth. Did Noah and Abigail think that no one would ever find out that they were behind the schemes? Or was it just a case of passion over logic, where they were so blinded by love that they didn't think things through and examine the consequences?

chelseas said...

I think that there are many different connections that can be made from The Village to The Crucible. I think that it is very similar in the sense of their society. In both societies, they live a very simple, Puritan life, and they are very afraid of the unknown. I think that they are also fearful and suspicious of “spirits” and fear that they will upset those spirits, which in turn will cause harm to their village. For example, in The Village, the two boys were screaming, and they said that they talked to the evil beings, who said that they were mad that the villagers were disturbing them. In The Crucible, they were fearful of the Devil, and of people being possessed by spirits. This was also the case in that article about the unnatural killers. In this article, it discussed the couple who claimed that they killed those people because of watching the movie in which the characters did this. I think that these all relate in the sense that the people are fearful of spirits, as well as of the unknown.

Some symbols and/or motifs that I noticed include colors-red and yellow, fire, wind/weather, and also the innocence of love. I noticed that red and yellow were used a lot throughout this movie, as well as fire to light the way, almost lighting the way into the unknown. The weather always got stormy when something was about to happen. Also, another symbol might be the innocence of the wedding and love that the two possess, in response to the evil of the beings. This is almost like two polar opposites-love and evil or hate.

Some questions that I had include the following:
1. Shortly after Ivy finds Lucius stabbed, there is a white flag flying in the foreground. Does the white flag signify a truce that the town wants to have with the evil beings, and what importance does it have?

2. What symbol does the color yellow have, and why is it used so much? Why is yellow considered a “safe color”, when it is usually representative of cowardice?

3. After the wedding is over, the camera zooms back into the area where the wedding was, and there appears to be a red scarf of some sort. What does this symbolize, and what is the importance of it?

mollyd said...

Amy- I like your connection to the Crucible. One thing that I see similar is the way the village runs. All the people seem to live in fear of “the things unspoken of” in the same way that the Puritans were afraid of the witches. Both just try to hide from them and stay away. They do not want to associate with the “evil” at all.

Also I think Lucius was not afraid of going into the woods because he was more concerned about helping others and getting medicine, instead of fearing any sort of “creatures”. He was able to put his fears aside and find out who was in the woods and what makes them so bad. Lucius has set himself apart from the other villagers because of his bravery and quest to better the village.

A question I have is: When Ivy goes into the woods she brings along a friend to help her, since Ivy is blind how will the experiences be different for each (Ivy and the man) since Ivy will not be able to see while the other can?

Oliviak said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Oliviak said...

Well I don’t know if anyone else noticed this but Noah’s lips and eyes were really red right before he stabbed Lucius. Does that symbolize the dark side that is in all of us and that really what we need to fear is ourselves?

To answer mollyd’s question yes, I think that the experience will be different for each. I think that Ivy will be less scared because she can’t see what is going on. She might also be more scared at times for that exact same reason.

One question I have is what color do you think Lucius is in Ivy’s mind?

alexf said...

Well first off, let me just say a symbol/foreshadowing that I noticed. You guys may think that this is very minimal, but oh well. Did you notice that when Ivy’s sister confessed her love to Lucius, he was sharpening a knife?!?! Well, once Lucius and Ivy confessed their love to one another, Noah killed him…with (the same?!?!) knife!

Anyways, so far I think that this film is really good! Honestly though, I don’t know who to feel sorry for. On one hand, Ivy just lost the love of her life and on the other hand, it was her special brother (I’m assuming) that killed him! After seeing that, my mind was all messed up. It was just a bad scenario all together. 

Like I said, I think that the knife is a big symbol/motif and also I think that the weather, rocking chair, and colors are all great symbols/motifs.

Some connections that I see so far are that these societies are very “na├»ve.” Also, love plays a huge role in this so far, as it also does in the Crucible. I think too that being the “odd man out” or “going against the grain” are important in the Crucible and The Village because Proctor did that and now Ivy/Lucius did that!

hannahl said...

First of all, I'd like to mention some metaphors-

1) I thought the blood on Ivy's white dress after Lucius was stabbed was representative of how this pure town has been ripped apart by bloodshed. Also, and more importantly, it represents how a man with PURE intentions and a PURE soul, Noah, stained his reputation with blood.

2) Ivy's blindness is representative of her increased intelligence and intuition. Usually, in literature and other things, a loss of sight means a greater knowledge of the world.


1) How did Ivy become blind?

I love this movie and I think it is really interesting in relation to the Crucible, especially at this one part in the movie when someone said "call everyone to the meeting hall for questioning", so much like the Crucible!

Amyw- wow, I really liked your connection to the Crucible.

Mollyd- I really think that the only reason she might make it through the forest and the reason why her father let her go is because she is blind, and cannot see the danger, after all, the brain reacts to sight more than anything.

shannanp said...

I think that the color yellow is definitely a symbol. Its their "good" color, I just don't understand how it was decided that and why. I also think that the chair that is on Ivy's porch is a symbol.
Connections to The Crucible that I have made are that every society needs a scapegoat. For The Crucible, everything bad is traced back to witches, In The Village, everything bad is blamed on the "ones we don't speak of". Otherwise, without those creatures, they believe they are very well off.
Some questions:
How did everyone get to this village? Did they just one day decide to pack up their lives and move out to the middle of nowhere?
Do you think that "the ones we don't speak of" had anything to do with Ivy's blindness?
What is with the baby pigs? I know that they are traces of the monsters from the woods, but what significance are baby pigs (or whatever they are...)?
And finally, why did Mr. Walker tell Ivy to try not to scream too loud?

melissaz said...

Everyone, I am so impressed with the connections and symbols you have all noticed; ones I had never thought of.

One thing that I seemed to notice is the importance of the hands. When Ivy was going to find Lucius, her hand was read. When Noah was rocking on the porch, his hands were covered in blood. It just seems like the hands have a very hidden importance. Anyone else in Smith's class last year would be able to relate to the hands connection in Macbeth.

And obviously the colors, red and yellow are very strong symbols. They, in a way, represent good and evil in a way most literature does not use. Normally it is plain and simple, black and white.

In both The Crucible and this movie, the societies seem to be dicatated by the fear of the unknown. Granted, in The Curcible, it is less rational, but both communities live in fear of what may happen.

Olivia- Ok, this is really out there but this is what I think about Lucius' color. When Ivy was holding Lucius after he had died, she told her father when he walked in that she did not want anyone to see his color. First, how would she know the color of blood and be able to tell the extent of his bleeding to say to the town she did not want them to see this blood? I think that Lucius' color was red, and when he was kind of "cut open" she did not want this sacred bit of knowledge, his color, to be shown to the world. It was kind of like his color now would be shown through his blood. Plus, this color is something that the town fears already. So yes, I am a little crazy but that's what I thought of when I heard her say that.

I don't know about anyone else, but I was terribly sad when Noah killed Lucius. Lucius seemed like an amazing character that could really further the story. Why did Noah continue to stab Luciuc like he were some animal?

One big question I have is, does Noah or will Noah ever regret what he has done to Lucius?


Ryad said...

I don't really have anymore symbols that I noticed that haven't been mencioned. I know what Melissa was talking about with the hands. In the Village they seem to represent connection.

Alex- Noah Isn't Ivy's brother. Just another boy who lives in the village.

I think yellow is used so much because it is a bright color like the sun. And things usually seem brighter ans safer in the light. But red is the color of bloodshed and death.

KiraW said...

First of all to all of you, I don't think that Lucius is dead. He was stabbed, but that does not mean that he is dead, and althought this society is a bit strange, I don't think that they would sew up a dead man and keep him in the "hospital" and let people go in and talk to him. *And no, I have never seen this movie before, so if he is actually dead, sorry*

I think that this movie is PACKED with symbolisim. There is so much that can be infered. I think that the color red is the bad color because it is the color of blood and it is can be associated with death. Also, I think that yellow may be the color because it is symbolic of cowardlyness and they seem to be in a small way cowards in the fact that they are too scared to go into the woods.

In responce to Olivia's question, I had the same thought as Melissa. I think that his color is red. I think that it is red because he has a curiosity for the unknown and in that society, the somewhat unattainable. He himself is a mystery, and so are "the ones of witch we do not speak".

KiraW said...

I was just reading Amy's post, and I just thought of something. Fire is a large symbol. And fire is made of YELLOW and RED. I don't know if this has anything to do with anything, but just a thought.

morganw said...

Okay. One thing I've noticed is the theme of light vs. dark.

Also, to answer someones question, I think yellow is a good color becaue it symbolizes light. And light is what guards the borderlands into the forest and what seems to keep everyone safe. Light is also what Ivy sees.

One thing that was weird for me was how my opinions of "those we do not speak of" changed when they started doing warnings without killing any people. For some strange reason that made me have a sort of respect for the creatures. It seemed to me that they weren't all evil because they had, one, been willing to start a truce in the first place, and ,two, were willing to give these people a chance to leave before they unleashed their fury. It also made me realize that "those we do not speak of" must be a civilization of some sort because they have the organization to wear red cloaks, work together, and respect truces.

On the other hand, they are still creepy and demented, but after today I'm surprisingly much less frightened of them.

morganw said...

Also, just for clarification, Noah is not a normal guy. The entire reason Lucious wanted to leave to the towns in the first place was to get medicine for Noah. Noah is, in some way, mentally unstable, which is why he stabbed (Lucious isn't dead yet!) Lucious. Okay, he probably had some strong emotion, didn't know how to deal with it, and without fully realizing and understanding what he was doing, stabbed Lucious. On that note, I do not think that there were any underlying motives or schemes that Noah had or was planning. I simply think he is mentally ill and therefore, didn't know how to control himself.

So, great connection to the crucible Amy, but I don't think Noah had even slightly near the mental capacity of Abigail and I don't think he would be able to "scheme" either.

morganw said...

Chealsea - Another reason (I just thought of this one while reading your post) I think that yellow is a safe color is because it does stand for cowardice. If the people in the village would just own up to their fears and face them, they wouldn't have to hide from those who they do not speak of.

More importantly, I think that those who they do not speak of are just taking advantage of the cowardice and ignorance of the people of the village. Most of this is mental; I highly doubt that in the end those who they do not speak of will turn out to be actually evil creatures.

kennaw said...

So far I'm taking from the film all the symbols they are giving. There;s so many like the blue rocking chair, the color red, the girl's blind colors, the color yellow, the dead animals, and more.

Well if I hadn't known the next question was about symbols and motifs I wouldn't of answered it already but it's there above.

I notice that evil lurks in mysterious ways. That evil is hidden and never physically shown to the full eye. Also, the people's reactions to the bell we're frantic. Kind of like when they heard of witchcraft in the town.

What happened to the village in the first place that made them fear "the others"?

Is The girl's blindness from the other creatures?

Why is it when anything bad has been committed, something bad is foreshadowed, or someone has committed an act of such, they end up in the blue rocking chair?

MollyS said...

Having already seen this movie, I am noticing more and more motifs and 'clues' if you will, the farther into it that we get! Very exciting! One of the connections to The Crucible that I noticed today was the small children claiming to have seen 'The Thing They Do Not Speak Of' within the village. Much of the dialogue associated with this reminded me of The Crucible, things like "Are you absolutely certain?" and others.

A large motif that I have been picking up on has been the use of light. We hardly ever see Lucius in the light, especially in crows, or in intense moments, parts of his face are hidden. Also, things that they are scared of are in the dark, like the box of secrets in Lucius' house. Something I wonder about with this is the fact that the forest in this movie is oddly light, being composed of aspen trees rather then the typically scarier pines and other dark timber. The forest seems to be one of the main places of fear for the villagers, yet it is light. I wonder what the importance of this could be.

MattN said...

WOO HOO First boy to post!! Well I have a lot of similar questions, and I would like to respond to some. First off, if I was Ivy, I would hvae totally gone off on Noah, even though he acts like he doesn't know what he is doing, i think he really knows and chooses to go against his conscience. His superego is kind of defective.
How did Ivy become Blind?
Why did Noah try to stab Lucius in the first place.
What do you think will happen to Ivy and her friend in the woods? Will they find other villages on earth?
Will Lucius survive?

I find this to be a very interesting movie and i am very anxious to see what comes next.

MattN said...

O Yeah, some really big motif's that i noticed where the fact that whenever something dramatic or evil/bad is going to happen, the weather gets all messed up. The wind especially seems to be bad. I know that we stopped when it was raining in the forest, so maybe that will have to do with something that will come next!!

EmilyJ said...

So I have a couple questions to start off with:

Why wouldn't Ivy tell Lucius his color?
And I would have to disagree with Lucius's color being red because when Ivy held the red berries, she didn't know she was holding the "dangerous color" until Lucius told her. If she couldn't see the color red then, how could she see it in Lucius? Just my opinion.

Also, what was the pact made by all the elderly about not entering the forest that was being referenced? I'm confused as to exactly what the pact was and why they made it. Did something terrible happen in the past with the elderly and "those they don't speak of?".

meganu said...

I've noticed that red equals the 'bad' color. The creatures are completely dressed in red and anything red in the village has to be buried and disposed of. Also, yellow symoblizes the 'safety' color. For some reason it wards off the creatures and keeps the people safe.

Another thing that could be seen as a symbol is how the town is covered in secrets. It might not be many secrets either, just one big secret. I think this is what the whole movie is about. The big secret of the town.

melissaz- I also noticed the connection with the hands, especially Noah's. He's always holding something red in his hands, whether it's the berries or Lucius's blood.

I've noticed that both in The Crucible and The Village, both of the societies are controlled by fear. Secrecy is also a big part of both societies. In The Crucible, none of the girls want to get caught with what they were doing so they blamed it on everyone else using witchcraft, keeping what they did themselves a secret. I don't want to give anything away about The Village, but their society is also comletely controlled by a big secret.

jordans said...

First of all I love this movie! I find it pretty easy to see things that have possible symbolism and metaphors but really hard to figure out what those symbols and metaphors are!

But I think that Ivy’s blindness could be symbolic of her ability to trust what she feels and knows and not trust what she sees. This could be helpful when she has to look deeper and piece tings together but not just look at what in front of her face.

I think it was really interesting what Lucif said about the secrets in the town, I have a feeling that will have something to do with the ending. But it reminded of the Crucible because of John and Abigail and their secrets. That also reminded me of Desperate Housewives, everyone’s secrets have an affect on the whole community.

I noticed the weather is always gloomy and I think it might be like the towns fear is always cast over their everyday lives. Its always hovering above them affecting them even when they don’t acknowledge it.

whitneys said...

After watching half this film, I aboslutely love it! It is so interesting watching and wondering what the director's purpose was in everything. So far, I sense fear everywhere in the village. Everyone seems to be on edge, except the elders. I think it is interesting to see the difference between the elders and the regualr people. Also, the wind and the weather are really interesting. They seem to always represent some emotion taking place. Such as the wind when something that will change the course of the village happens and the fog when Ivy and Lucius confess their love.

What do you guys think of "they who we do not mention"? What are they?

macm said...

M. Night Shyamalan is all about symbolism and hidden connections. I have noticed that, like the crucible, there are not a lot of colors in the village. However, there are the two colors, red (bad) and yellow (good). I always thin kthat there is a strong connection between good and evil, and I feel like there are still hidden secrets about the villagers connecting them to those of whom they do not speak. Like lots of others I also thought that fire was a reoccuring theme, and I found it ironic that while it was used to ward of the creatures, it was red and therefore attracted them.
A question I had was; Why does Lucius always appear when the thing they do not speak of are near? And realy, why is he not somewhat scared of oblivion? I also wanted to know if you guys thought the "magic rocks" were real, or simply given to them to make them believe that everything was going to be OK? If so, it would mean that they believe Lucius about the being scared and innocent while traveling through the woods. He must know something! How else could he escape the beasties?

macm said...

In response to emilyj- I think that she said she can see the colors of people, not inanimate objects. She really can't see anything except for people's auras, and only certain people at that. I still think Lucius's color could be and probably is red, since to me it seems like he has a connection to the monsters.

AustinD said...

In my oppinion, the wind represents what society thinks is evil. Whenever the citizens begin to talk about a somewhat controvercial topic, when "it" shows up, or in the woods, the wind suddenly pciks up and fear begins to amount in the people.

I have a bunch of questions that have already been answered, but one that hasn't been answered just yet is "What did the funerel have to do with setting up the plot?"

morgant said...

I don't know about you guys, but I think Lucious is kind of suspicious in his actions. He is kind of quiet and doesn't really talk much. I also don't get what the "warnings" are from "the ones they don't speak of." The livestock is being skinned or whatever? What are they warning them of? I was also wondering about Noah. He seemed like he really struggled with killing Lucious. I mean he started crying and all of that. Why did he kill him?

Madisont said...

I don't know if you guys were listening to the words Ivy was singing to her sister when she got rejected by Lucius but these were them:

"Baby sleep, gently sleep
Life is long and love is deep
Time will be, sweet for thee
All the world to see
Time to look about and know
Though the shadows come and go
How the breeze, stirs the trees
How the blossoms grow..."

Now for one, she mentions how the breeze stirs the trees and the shadows come and go. You can tell she is foreshadowing as to what happens...because if the beasts did "attack" or something, it wouldn't be much to fear. They have their innocence and little village, it will stay pure.

Noah intrigues a young mentally retarded man. I'm interested as to why he would be so interested in the color red. First he finds the red berries. He always seems to have a little red color hidden on him. And Lucius's blood fascinated him, even though it also scared him. One of my questions was, "Why was Noah so fascinated by the color red? Was it because, as it was forbidden, he was naturally curious as to why, and had no conceptions to the consequences?"

I also noticed that the "creatures" had to be given sacrifices. I was wondering why the villagers decided on doing that. Was there some sign as to why they should?

My personal belief is that Lucius is simply not satisfied with life in the village. He is not willing to make his life routine and boring on account of some creatures. I believe that, instead of hiding, he felt that he just wanted to be left alone and left to his own devices, more or less.

KateP said...

So some of the motifs that I noticed were the wind, the colors red/yellow, and the forest. I think that the wind represents change, the colors we already know what they mean (red=danger and yellow=safe color), and the wind like someone else said means fear of the unknown.

I know that we were talking about in class how Ivy's hair is suppose to be very red and also her lips, but is this?

Does anyone think that Ivy saw Noah as red, since he went and did that bad thing?

I think that I would have reacted the same way as Ivy did if the love of my life had almost just been murdered. But in a way I can't help but feel bad for Noah.

chelseas said...

I did not see a post for our Friday blog so I will post it here.

I am not sure what you guys all think, but I think that is is odd that Ivy's dad does not want their village to be shown the new way of life. I thought that it was very odd that nobody has questioned as to why they cannot go into the woods, and why they don't try to trap the creatures. Also, I was insure why exactly Noah killed Lucics. Was there some reason, or was it completely random?

roser said...

Mainly, I have pretty much noticed what everyone already said. But the mystery to me, is if there is any meaning behind Lucius' name...whether or not he is named that for a reason?

rachels said...

So obviously red is a symbol of fear and of pain and of the unknown. It is interesting how the connection every one has to each other is pain of their past.
The woods symbolize the unknown, and the holding on to the past and selfishness.
I think Lucious wasn't more afraid because he wasn't terrified of death and was willing to sacrifice for his town. Also he realized how much power can be created by fear and so without letting that fear rule him he had power over the creatures.
If I was ivy I would have responded the same way. I mean she didn't know it was Noah and if she did that would have been even scarier.